Zach, I feel you. I taught poetry writing for 15 years at our local community college. The students would invariably ask about the difference between prose and poetry. I never found or came up with a satisfactory term for the thing we call poetry. I found numerous definitions of GOOD poetry but very little about the category poetry. Trying to explain prose-poems was a
head-banging frustration. In the long run, having clearly delineated categories won't eventuate
in better poetry, but it surely would make teaching poetry easier. I liked your poem.
Thank you so much for engaging so kindly with this, Zach. My ow response was too harsh so I didn’t send it. I love prose poems more than any other form. And your poem is exemplary. I find these soldiers standing at the borders of genre distasteful. This is largely why the prose poem was invented. And we’re lucky and much richer for it.
K, distasteful? Those soldiers keep our poetry discussions (and poetry writing classes) from devolving into a mush of vague impressions, my usual experience of poetry workshops and online exchanges.
You might consider why your initial, unposted response was harsh. Did you feel threatened? Do you really believe a thirst for novelty can create original art? I've read so many published hybrid genre pieces that fall flat on their faces, as if mere transgressiveness is all it takes to produce a good poem.
The qualities that define a good poem are shared by good prose: vivid imagery, original thoughts, fresh diction and figures of speech, rhythms that reinforce content, etc. So, what distinguishes poetry from prose? I'd say formal constraints. Prose features a justified right-hand margin; poetry features numerous heightening constraints: rhyme, line breaks, meter. . . .
Here's a profitable experiment. Rewrite "The Red Wheelbarrow" as prose; then compare the differences between the original version and this prose version:
"so much depends upon a red wheelbarrow glazed with rain water beside the white chickens "
Is distinguishing between prose and poetry just a nit-picking, academic, gate-keeping concern? No, I believe it's at the heart of any useful, coherent literary criticism. Can we at least call "prose poems" what they really are? Poetic prose paragraphs.
I'd love to read your definition of poetry, not a definition of GOOD poetry (best words in best order, etc.), but what IS poetry. Good luck with that.
Jefferson, I’m happy for the conservation. We are entitled to our opinions.
Teaching poetry is an honorable vocation. If not for my high school English teacher, I maybe never would have gained the courage to continue writing. I was an abysmal student. I’m sure you had a positive effect on your students in the same way.
Maybe we should blame Baudelaire, who “dreamed of the miracle of poetic prose.”
I think of Heaney’s line: “Compose in darkness. Expect aurora borealis.” Often all one can do is grope around in the dark of the creative process till the light presents itself, whether I’m writing prose-poetry, or a strict 14-line sonnet.
Bartles' piece is not a poem; it's what I wish the Creative Writing Industry would call a poetic paragraph. As Aaron Neville sings, "tell it like it is." No extant definition accurately describes "poetry," the thing, better than this one: a text or expression organized by constraints such as rhyme, line breaks, etc. Prose is a text with one formal constraint, a justified right-hand margin. Poetry is not some mystical essence one pours into various shaped bottles. The shape itself defines poetry, not just good or bad poetry, but the thing itself.
Though I would never compare myself to Heaney (possibly the best poet of the late 20th century), he called the prose-poems that he wrote “verse paragraphs.” His chapbook Stations is certainly poetic. Geoffrey Hill, another great practitioner of prose-poems, wrote a fine book of them in Mercian Hymns. I’m perfectly fine to use a different term to describe a form that teeters between prose and poetry. I’m just happy people are thinking about writing and form.
sometimes you just love a poem, love it all, this is one of them--makes my day already and it’s still pitch black outside. Thank you for it Zach Bartles. ONLY POEMS, too.
Zach, I feel you. I taught poetry writing for 15 years at our local community college. The students would invariably ask about the difference between prose and poetry. I never found or came up with a satisfactory term for the thing we call poetry. I found numerous definitions of GOOD poetry but very little about the category poetry. Trying to explain prose-poems was a
head-banging frustration. In the long run, having clearly delineated categories won't eventuate
in better poetry, but it surely would make teaching poetry easier. I liked your poem.
Thank you so much for engaging so kindly with this, Zach. My ow response was too harsh so I didn’t send it. I love prose poems more than any other form. And your poem is exemplary. I find these soldiers standing at the borders of genre distasteful. This is largely why the prose poem was invented. And we’re lucky and much richer for it.
K, distasteful? Those soldiers keep our poetry discussions (and poetry writing classes) from devolving into a mush of vague impressions, my usual experience of poetry workshops and online exchanges.
You might consider why your initial, unposted response was harsh. Did you feel threatened? Do you really believe a thirst for novelty can create original art? I've read so many published hybrid genre pieces that fall flat on their faces, as if mere transgressiveness is all it takes to produce a good poem.
The qualities that define a good poem are shared by good prose: vivid imagery, original thoughts, fresh diction and figures of speech, rhythms that reinforce content, etc. So, what distinguishes poetry from prose? I'd say formal constraints. Prose features a justified right-hand margin; poetry features numerous heightening constraints: rhyme, line breaks, meter. . . .
Here's a profitable experiment. Rewrite "The Red Wheelbarrow" as prose; then compare the differences between the original version and this prose version:
"so much depends upon a red wheelbarrow glazed with rain water beside the white chickens "
Is distinguishing between prose and poetry just a nit-picking, academic, gate-keeping concern? No, I believe it's at the heart of any useful, coherent literary criticism. Can we at least call "prose poems" what they really are? Poetic prose paragraphs.
I'd love to read your definition of poetry, not a definition of GOOD poetry (best words in best order, etc.), but what IS poetry. Good luck with that.
Jefferson, I’m happy for the conservation. We are entitled to our opinions.
Teaching poetry is an honorable vocation. If not for my high school English teacher, I maybe never would have gained the courage to continue writing. I was an abysmal student. I’m sure you had a positive effect on your students in the same way.
Maybe we should blame Baudelaire, who “dreamed of the miracle of poetic prose.”
I think of Heaney’s line: “Compose in darkness. Expect aurora borealis.” Often all one can do is grope around in the dark of the creative process till the light presents itself, whether I’m writing prose-poetry, or a strict 14-line sonnet.
I recognize this all-consuming love.
The art of artful verbs!
Thank you, Rochelle Jewel Shapiro. From someone as talented and accomplished as you, this means a lot.
Everything is cleansingly magical--except for the unfortunate bathos of the last three words.
Bartles' piece is not a poem; it's what I wish the Creative Writing Industry would call a poetic paragraph. As Aaron Neville sings, "tell it like it is." No extant definition accurately describes "poetry," the thing, better than this one: a text or expression organized by constraints such as rhyme, line breaks, etc. Prose is a text with one formal constraint, a justified right-hand margin. Poetry is not some mystical essence one pours into various shaped bottles. The shape itself defines poetry, not just good or bad poetry, but the thing itself.
Though I would never compare myself to Heaney (possibly the best poet of the late 20th century), he called the prose-poems that he wrote “verse paragraphs.” His chapbook Stations is certainly poetic. Geoffrey Hill, another great practitioner of prose-poems, wrote a fine book of them in Mercian Hymns. I’m perfectly fine to use a different term to describe a form that teeters between prose and poetry. I’m just happy people are thinking about writing and form.
I love these refreshing images and how it circles back to the title
You’re one of our most favorite readers, TR!
Only Poems is one of my favorite journals:)
sometimes you just love a poem, love it all, this is one of them--makes my day already and it’s still pitch black outside. Thank you for it Zach Bartles. ONLY POEMS, too.
Thank you, Tara. I am very grateful that you enjoyed the poem. Your comment has also made my day.
Karan Kapoor and everyone at Only Poems, thank you for sharing my poem here, giving it another life.
You’re very welcome, Zach! Thanks for being brilliant🌻
You’re too kind, Karan. Thank you! I feel honored that y’all like my work.